I was not at all surprised that happened because what I share doesn't make any sense to one, who, like his friend D. Lane is convinced that 'science must direct mysticism, not the other way around'.
To be fair, I need to say this: very often what passes for mysticism is nothing but 'peak experience' parading as enlightenment. Nature mysticism is fun! I had great many peak experiences in nature -- which is the experience of a temporary feeling of oneness with the gross realm which does not involve the causal realms--but it never occurred to me to call it what it is not.
The experience of (literal) union of the Soul with the Essence of the Absolute Supreme and all beings in the visible and invisible domains, it is not.
To be fair, I need to say this: very often what passes for mysticism is nothing but 'peak experience' parading as enlightenment. Nature mysticism is fun! I had great many peak experiences in nature -- which is the experience of a temporary feeling of oneness with the gross realm which does not involve the causal realms--but it never occurred to me to call it what it is not.
The experience of (literal) union of the Soul with the Essence of the Absolute Supreme and all beings in the visible and invisible domains, it is not.
David Lane, Ph.D. wrote: Tangled Phone Lines Why Dawkins Hung Up on Ken Wilber.
I am going to quote some excerpts from it. My intention is to debunk his belief that genuine mystics are delusional, debunk his notion that: "the limits of our skull are the limits of our understanding", snippet from The Mystical Dimension www.integralworld.net/lane12.html
(But) First, I want to include few snippets - in Ken Wilber's words, from: A Brief History Of Everything, p.299-300 - on what we mean by 'flatland'.
(But) First, I want to include few snippets - in Ken Wilber's words, from: A Brief History Of Everything, p.299-300 - on what we mean by 'flatland'.
"the culture gap is not our real problem. The real problem is that we are not allowed to even think about the culture gap. And we are not allowed to think about culture gap because we live in flatland. In flatland, we do not recognize degrees of consciousness and depth and value and worth. Everybody has the same depth, namely, zero.
+
+
"flatland denies the existence of the vertical dimension altogether, denies interior transformation and transcendence altogether, denies the nine or so interior stages of consciousness development that is truly part of culture's human capital, but is not even entered on the ledgers of flatland.
+
And the point is, you cannot integrate the Big Three in flatland. In flatland, they remain dissociated at best, collapsed at worst. And no system that we are aware of has ever gone limping into the future with these types of massive internal dissociation's. If these chaotic tensions do not lead to self-transcendence, they will lead to self-dissolution. Those are the two gruesome choices evolution has always offered at each vertical emergent.
*
In Lane's words few excerpts from: Tangled Lines Why Dawkins Hung Up on Wilber:
"I don't necessarily think that mystics and skeptics should depart company and go on their respective ways, but I do think that if they seriously communicate with each other something is bound to give. And what each side may have to give up is more than they might be willing to concede! For example, take a mystic in the Sant Mat tradition, such as late Kripal Singh (who Ken Wilber once cited as the "unsurpassed master of subtle realm"), who practiced and ancient yogic technique known as shabd yoga wherein one listens to a divine inner sound which reportedly transports the soul into higher regions of bliss beyond the body and the mind. The theological framework undergirding much of Kripal Singh's practice (which dates back centuries through such practitioners as Tulsi Sahib, Kabir, and Guru Nanak) states emphatically that the inner shabd (or inner sound) is not physical or brain produced but is rather divine melody that transcends all physics and the universe.
But what happens if in studying this phenomenon from a neurological point of view the Sant Mat mystic discovers that such "sacred" music is tinnitus, which may be caused by earwax built up, or nasal allergies, or lower levels serotonin, or any host of physically related ailments. Does this sort information change the numinous encounter or its interpretation?
(* I never suffered from such ailments*)
(* I never suffered from such ailments*)
Are religious movements, predicated on shabd yoga practice, such as Radhasoami, the Divine Light Mission, Eckankar, Quan Yin, MSIA, etc., going to accept such a reductionistic explanation of what erstwhile was regarded as a direct pathway to God-Realization?
I think not. Why? Because the very basis of the practice is centered on the notion that it is a spiritual endeavor and not merely a cranial one.
(*I practiced not at all, never heard of shabd yoga, still it happened to me*)
I think not. Why? Because the very basis of the practice is centered on the notion that it is a spiritual endeavor and not merely a cranial one.
(*I practiced not at all, never heard of shabd yoga, still it happened to me*)
In other words, if a mystic is serious about studying the subject scientifically it means that he or she may have to radically revise their understanding and prior theological dogmas about what is actually happening when they undergo a transformation of consciousness.
The scientific study of mysticism may replace some deeply cherished ideas. Some which maybe so cherished that their very elimination will be too heavy a price for some.
(* You will never acknowledge your ignorance because it would be too heavy a price to pay for your ego*)
I think there is a reason Ken Wilber and Richard Dawkins don't talk. Or, if they do, why Richard Dawkins would have to hang up on Wilber.
(* Dawkins thinks that mystical revelation is "the enemy of truth" - so yeah he would have to hang up on Wilber*)
Ken Wilber *author of many books on human development and consciousness* still wants to believe in mystic "goo". He wants a cosmic feeling good story, even if his flowery description of the same doesn't have even an ounce of scientific credibility. (...)
Wilber wants us to believe in fairy tales, even if dressed up in pseudo-scientific jargon (....)
Dawkins on the other hand wants us to finally grow up and admit what we have secretly thought for a long time. We were wrong about the gods and we were wrong about ourselves. Yes, mysticism can indeed be studied, but I think we might be a little shocked to see how different it looks when we take off its mystic garb."
quoted from: integralworld.net/lane8.html
*
Final thought for those who think that Soul-level revelations and our contemplative conclusions is the product of delusional mind:
Because your eternal self Soul's awakened awareness is not yet on line - developmentally speaking *which is not same as 'spiritual intelligence' = the result of text-reading/discussion* - you are not qualified to pass judgments on those of us who know better. . .One's awakened inner Divinity / the eternal Avatar knows better. . . this is why I say:
Divine Revelation is the communication of the Divine from the source of its Nature within the awakened Inner Being/Ascended Soul.
I didn't study and practiced anything. I didn't know about 'Shabd Yoga', still I bear witness to what Kabir said, because it happened to me. I therefore can call myself Shabd Master.
This Yoga names many types of inner Sounds - such as thunder, waterfall, kettle drums, bee, Flute and more - and I second that because I experienced same, including 'Krishna's Flute' Sound.
In www.spiritspeaks-theofilia.blogspot.ca/2009/06/on-rapture-musings.html I share experiences which can't be explained away by saying, 'such a thing can be explained by brain chemistry.'
I had unsolicited Kundalini awakening and She opened my ears and eyes to spiritual dimensions.
Because your eternal self Soul's awakened awareness is not yet on line - developmentally speaking *which is not same as 'spiritual intelligence' = the result of text-reading/discussion* - you are not qualified to pass judgments on those of us who know better. . .One's awakened inner Divinity / the eternal Avatar knows better. . . this is why I say:
Divine Revelation is the communication of the Divine from the source of its Nature within the awakened Inner Being/Ascended Soul.
I didn't study and practiced anything. I didn't know about 'Shabd Yoga', still I bear witness to what Kabir said, because it happened to me. I therefore can call myself Shabd Master.
This Yoga names many types of inner Sounds - such as thunder, waterfall, kettle drums, bee, Flute and more - and I second that because I experienced same, including 'Krishna's Flute' Sound.
In www.spiritspeaks-theofilia.blogspot.ca/2009/06/on-rapture-musings.html I share experiences which can't be explained away by saying, 'such a thing can be explained by brain chemistry.'
I had unsolicited Kundalini awakening and She opened my ears and eyes to spiritual dimensions.
And I have proof . I have a record of talking about mysterious, several notes long 'cosmic chant' in several posts, that lasted about 2 years. I still hear the ever-present extremely subtle/causal vibrations of the undifferentiated Light within and outside my being. This experience served as a necessary step leading towards ever-higher Celestial Absorption (poetically speaking). I might have not mentioned this directly, but careful reading of what I share points to the fact that on this path, Kundalini involves the brain, central nervous system, subtle chakra system and the reproductive system.
If curious, have a look at couple of posts written in 2010 - titled: Evolution Beyond Supramental Stage? & Logos-Cosmic-Manna-Shabd-Crystal Rain
If curious, have a look at couple of posts written in 2010 - titled: Evolution Beyond Supramental Stage? & Logos-Cosmic-Manna-Shabd-Crystal Rain
www.spiritspeaks-theofilia.blogspot.ca/2010/12/logos-cosmic-manna-shabd-crystal-rain.html
* Edit note: I contacted David C. Lane & he wrote back...this is why I wrote sister post couple of days ago titled, Interpretation & Divine Revelation Not Same Thing - link. . .
www.spiritspeaks-theofilia.blogspot.ca/2018/02/interpretation-divine-revelation-not.html
I will end this post by including Eddington's words:
Quantum physics deals with the abstract, symbolic analysis of the physical world-space, time, matter, and energy--even down to the subtlest level, the quantum vacuum. Mysticism deals with the direct apprehension of the transcendent Source of all things. +
We should suspect an intent to reduce God to a system of differential equations. That fiasco at any rate must be avoided. However much the ramification of physics may be extended by further science, they cannot from their very nature (impinge upon) the background in which they have their being.
* Edit note: I contacted David C. Lane & he wrote back...this is why I wrote sister post couple of days ago titled, Interpretation & Divine Revelation Not Same Thing - link. . .
www.spiritspeaks-theofilia.blogspot.ca/2018/02/interpretation-divine-revelation-not.html
I will end this post by including Eddington's words:
Quantum physics deals with the abstract, symbolic analysis of the physical world-space, time, matter, and energy--even down to the subtlest level, the quantum vacuum. Mysticism deals with the direct apprehension of the transcendent Source of all things. +
We should suspect an intent to reduce God to a system of differential equations. That fiasco at any rate must be avoided. However much the ramification of physics may be extended by further science, they cannot from their very nature (impinge upon) the background in which they have their being.
No comments:
Post a Comment